Security errors at Heathrow's T5 have allowed foreign passengers to enter the UK without showing their passports.
British Airways (BA) blamed confusion over the terminal's layout for overseas passengers being treated as domestic arrivals and bypassing immigration.
...
It is understood the security breaches happened when shuttle bus drivers collected passengers from overseas flights and dropped them at a gate intended for domestic arrivals.
Babybus From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1275 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3969 times:
Doesn't surprise me.
I remember when I got off my plane a few weeks ago at T5 I couldn't make out where to go next. Proving how difficult it is to navigate, they had people acting as guides all over the place.
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 53 Reply 2, posted (2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3847 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT
Mistakes happen, similarly I was in a coach with LHR-BCN passengers onboard from an IB flight which stopped off at a domestic arrivals point. Nobody noticed, and they didn't even have the excuse of being unfamiliar with the new terminal building.
Rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3822 times:
This is what comes of merging domestic and international !
Years of separation just about everywhere in Europe WORKS !
Those few ! shuttle services should be returned to the ideal T1 facility straightway AND NO NEED FOR THOSE FINGER PRINT (BIO SPYING) techniques to be employed on people traveling legitimately within the SAME country.
MDS From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 3 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3778 times:
It's ridiculous.
They really need to get their act together with Terminal 5.
Regardless of how complicated it is, there's no excuse for such incompetence.
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1008 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3742 times:
Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 3): This is what comes of merging domestic and international !
Years of separation just about everywhere in Europe WORKS !
This story has nothing to do with segregation of domestic and int'l pax. This could have happened at any airport. The bus drivers dropped the pax at the wrong arrival point. Could have happened at T1 as well.
Flown on: AB6,319,320,321,332,333,342,343,346,717,727,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,773,77W,DC
United1 From United States, joined Oct 2003, 1263 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3742 times:
Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 3): Those few ! shuttle services should be returned to the ideal T1 facility straightway AND NO NEED FOR THOSE FINGER PRINT (BIO SPYING) techniques to be employed on people traveling legitimately within the SAME country.
I've kind of been surprised that BA didn't consolidated all of its domestic operations at LGW and use LHR exclusively for longhaul and most European flights after Open skies took effect. I know that would be a pain for UK citizens living outside of London having to transfer between LGW/LHR to connect but it would solve this problem and make it quite a bit easier for BAs passengers who are just making a connection in LHR.
TonyBurr From United States, joined Mar 2001, 930 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3511 times:
United1 says:
"I've kind of been surprised that BA didn't consolidated all of its domestic operations at LGW and use LHR exclusively for longhaul and most European flights after Open skies took effect. I know that would be a pain for UK citizens living outside of London having to transfer between LGW/LHR to connect but it would solve this problem and make it quite a bit easier for BAs passengers who are just making a connection in LHR.
United1, do you fly through London often? Do you fly through international cities, using them as a transfer point often? To say that LHR should be used for long haul and LGW for domestic is quite a statement. LHR is not just an O&D for London. People transfer it for onward flights throughout the world and the UK. How would you see a BA passenger arriving at LHR from NRT transferring to LGW for a flight on BA to MAN at say 7:00 AM. How long would you estimate the time needed to be?
Isn't the problem found in Japanese airports except NGO? How many hour between Tokyo's international airport and domestic airport at say 4:00 PM?
From your travel experience, how would you see the transfers accomplished in your divided London airports with heavy luggage and four children in tow ?
TCXDegsy From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 349 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3480 times:
Quoting United1 (Reply 7): I know that would be a pain for UK citizens living outside of London having to transfer between LGW/LHR to connect but it would solve this problem and make it quite a bit easier for BAs passengers who are just making a connection in LHR.
A bit of a pain? Understatement of the year, methinks!
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 9179 posts, RR: 20 Reply 10, posted (2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3480 times:
Quoting United1 (Reply 7): I've kind of been surprised that BA didn't consolidated all of its domestic operations at LGW and use LHR exclusively for longhaul and most European flights after Open skies took effect. I know that would be a pain for UK citizens living outside of London having to transfer between LGW/LHR to connect but it would solve this problem and make it quite a bit easier for BAs passengers who are just making a connection in LHR.
That has to be the craziest thing I have ever heard !! Its like saying lets make OAK for Domestics and SFO for international flights .
As for the mess up at T5 , I guess there are some very happy people now living visa free in the UK ...LOL...
United1 From United States, joined Oct 2003, 1263 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3411 times:
Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 8): United1, do you fly through London often? Do you fly through international cities, using them as a transfer point often? To say that LHR should be used for long haul and LGW for domestic is quite a statement. LHR is not just an O&D for London. People transfer it for onward flights throughout the world and the UK. How would you see a BA passenger arriving at LHR from NRT transferring to LGW for a flight on BA to MAN at say 7:00 AM. How long would you estimate the time needed to be?
Isn't the problem found in Japanese airports except NGO? How many hour between Tokyo's international airport and domestic airport at say 4:00 PM?
I logged about 120K across the Pacific last year (a chunk of it through the much maligned NW hub at NRT.) The year before that most of that was across the Atlantic. As I said it would be a bother for people not transiting international to international or terminating in London. However to your point of someone arriving from NRT and connecting to MAN and having to transit to LGW in order to make the connection, BA operates very frequent flights between LHR/LGW and MAN so there isn't much of a worry about missing a flights. There are already quite a few passengers that have to transfer between LHR/LGW in order to make international connections on BA everyday so its not like theres no precedence for making passengers transit between the airports.
As an example LAX-WAW via London on BA requires a transfer between LHR and LGW.
Quoting OA260 (Reply 10): That has to be the craziest thing I have ever heard !! Its like saying lets make OAK for Domestics and SFO for international flights .
Its hard to compare SFO/OAK to LGW/LHR as SFO/OAK do not have a single carrier with split hub operations between them, also SFO/OAK are not slot constrained so unlike LGW/LHR there is no reason to have a carrier split its hub. Also why is it crazy to suggest that BA move its domestic operations to LGW and have LHR as its international hub? If anything it would reduce the amount of people having to be processed through customs as there would be no more reason to have passengers making international to international connections clear customs just to transfer between LGW/LHR.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 9179 posts, RR: 20 Reply 12, posted (2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3390 times:
Quoting United1 (Reply 11): Also why is it crazy to suggest that BA move its domestic operations to LGW and have LHR as its international hub?
Do you know how many British people still depend on LHR for connections to BA's worldwide network? Alot of Domestic flights to LHR feed BA's WW network.
Concentriq From United States, joined Jan 2005, 359 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3390 times:
Arriving to CDG in 2006 from ORD: apparently french border services were short of staff. we waited for 1 hr in some corridor, after which we were all marched through the border crossing without showing our passports. All they said, that if you need transit visa, wait here for passport stamp. Since Paris was my final destination, i didnt stick around to get a stamp.
United1 From United States, joined Oct 2003, 1263 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3318 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 12): Quoting United1 (Reply 11):
Also why is it crazy to suggest that BA move its domestic operations to LGW and have LHR as its international hub?
Do you know how many British people still depend on LHR for connections to BA's worldwide network? Alot of Domestic flights to LHR feed BA's WW network.
About 11% of LHRs traffic is domestic, I have no idea how many passengers are in transit or are terminating in London. So the entire point behind this thread was to discuss how to prevent people from bypassing customs accidentally.
The way I see it BA and BAA have several choices all of which have pluses and minuses.
1. Continue on as before and hope that this never happens again (not realistic as mistakes will happen from time to time.)
2. Shift domestic operations to another part of LHR (that will increase BAs LHR operating cost as they now need to operate in two or three terminals again Domestic, 757s out of T3 as long those operations continue, and T5. Not to mention continuing to annoying the rest of LHRs airlines as they will have to reshuffle their own flights again.)
3. Move Domestic to LGW and consolidate international operations at LHR (causes domestic passengers to have to transit but at the same time lowers the amount of workload for Customs by ending the practice of having international to international passengers transit.)
4 Structurally modify T5 so segregate Domestic form International passengers (probably the most costly option however may be the most foolproof one as well)
5. Require all passengers Domestic and International to see a customs agent before leaving the airport. (Would add greatly to customs workload and annoy the heck out of domestic passengers transiting and ending their journeys at LHR.)
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 14734 posts, RR: 44 Reply 15, posted (2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3236 times:
Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 3): This is what comes of merging domestic and international !
Years of separation just about everywhere in Europe WORKS !
Either do it the sterile way (segregated), or do it the non-sterile way (everyone clears immigration), but the third way is asking for trouble. Of course the trouble comes from people making mistakes, but the solution has always been to make it less complicated so mistakes are harder to make.
One way to possibly mitigate this problem is to create "domestic buses" and "international buses" with two different markings and colors (orange for one, blue for the other, etc.), and the bus drivers also are assigned to one route or the other all the time (no switching by day, no two assignments on the same day). That way, on the off chance international bus still pulls up to the wrong plane or unloading point, EVERYONE working there would know the error. "hey, what's the orange bus doing here?"
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
PanAm747 From United States, joined Feb 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3131 times:
I realize the demand for gates and slots at LHR is tight, but wouldn't it be simpler to make one terminal for "UK-only" domestic flights, and the rest to be divided up between international carriers?
Let's say T1 is domestic only, and the others become international. In order to access the other terminals secure areas, one must show their passport/onward ticket. Arriving passengers at the other terminals have no access to any other terminals until they've gone through customs.
Practical considerations aside, I would assume Britain's main focus is security. And while I understand that many airlines are firmly entrenched in their terminals, it strikes me as being VERY insecure having this "haphazard" system of mixing international and domestic flights, with the hope that untested technology will make everything run smoothely.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
JGPH1A From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2988 times:
Quoting United1 (Reply 11): There are already quite a few passengers that have to transfer between LHR/LGW in order to make international connections on BA everyday so its not like theres no precedence for making passengers transit between the airports.
Have you ever actually done the transfer from LHR-LGW or v.v. ? It's a NIGHTMARE ! It's really really bad, and viciously expensive (GBP18.00 for a slow, tedious one-hour bus ride). The queue for the transfer bus at LHR is total chaos - even if you book a ticket before hand there's no guarantee of getting on the bus you want without fighting your way to the front of the line. I hate doing it, and will do anything to avoid it.
Quoting Concentriq (Reply 13): Arriving to CDG in 2006 from ORD: apparently french border services were short of staff. we waited for 1 hr in some corridor, after which we were all marched through the border crossing without showing our passports. All they said, that if you need transit visa, wait here for passport stamp. Since Paris was my final destination, i didnt stick around to get a stamp.
Same at NCE only they don't make you wait. If you arrive very late at night (BA352 from LHR is a classic example), the immgration desks are not manned - you just walk through. Similarly, the desks are only manned after 7am so if you arrive early enough at the airport, feel free to leave France, nobody cares.
Quoting United1 (Reply 14): Require all passengers Domestic and International to see a customs agent before leaving the airport. (Would add greatly to customs workload and annoy the heck out of domestic passengers transiting and ending their journeys at LHR.)
All Schengen passengers clear customs at their arrival point, regardless of where their journey started. They just don't need to clear immigration.
Sponsor Message: 
From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 245 posts, 
From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 6791 posts, 
From United States, joined Oct 2003, 1263 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 9179 posts, 
From , joined today!, posts,